James Tanner: Coyotes Missed Out on Easy To Predict Breakout Season

James Tanner: Coyotes Missed Out on Easy To Predict Breakout Season
- James_Tanner

Um what if Duclair was a lazy low effort player when with the coyotes? What do we do in that situation? What alternatives to acknowledging the obvious do you suggest? Is there an acceptable method to be honest about his poor work ethic without being labeled as racist? Is it still ok if we acknowledge white players as lazy? Thanks for gatekeeping on this, your thoughts appreciated

more movies, less Coyotes

Yea he’s on his fifth team before he turns 25 because he’s a ‘star player’ that works so hard and is a great teammate... nice try

I agree wholeheartedly with this headline.

Viktor Tikhonov anytime soon?

The Coyotes lack true leaders that have played on successful programs who can mentor their up and coming players. These mentors can't be the bottom of the roster players but top end ones that lead by example.

Um what if Duclair was a lazy low effort player when with the coyotes? What do we do in that situation? What alternatives to acknowledging the obvious do you suggest? Is there an acceptable method to be honest about his poor work ethic without being labeled as racist? Is it still ok if we acknowledge white players as lazy? Thanks for gatekeeping on this, your thoughts appreciated
- halo63

Duclair was so lazy he scored twenty goals and then when demoted to the fourth line for "reasons" he was putting up the best stats on the team. Imagine what he would do if he tried? (Note the extreme sarcasm of this post).

more movies, less Coyotes
- DoubleDown

Here here! Thoughts on the list so far?

Yea he’s on his fifth team before he turns 25 because he’s a ‘star player’ that works so hard and is a great teammate... nice try
- ClaudeFather

That looks worse on the NHL and the teams that had him than it does on Duclair.

Duclair was so lazy he scored twenty goals and then when demoted to the fourth line for "reasons" he was putting up the best stats on the team. Imagine what he would do if he tried? (Note the extreme sarcasm of this post).
- James_Tanner

Sounds exactly like Nik Zherdev. On pure raw talent he had multiple 25+ goal seasons, but you knew there was another level he just didn't care to get to. So yes, you can be lazy and still put up decent stats no matter what color your skin is.

Maybe the best example is Alex Daigle. He actually put up decent stats on a terrible Ottawa team. He had the talent, but he never put in the work to become what he was projected to be and quickly became a skilled yet unmotivated journeyman.

Duclair was so lazy he scored twenty goals and then when demoted to the fourth line for "reasons" he was putting up the best stats on the team. Imagine what he would do if he tried? (Note the extreme sarcasm of this post).
- James_Tanner

So in response to my questions...nothing?
Skilled players are not lazy? Or players of dark melanin are never lazy? Confused.
Alexi Yashin?
Zherdev as previously mentioned?
Just to clarify, it is ok to call them out because they are white? Or no, because they are Russian? Not sure, pls advise

Sounds exactly like Nik Zherdev. On pure raw talent he had multiple 25+ goal seasons, but you knew there was another level he just didn't care to get to. So yes, you can be lazy and still put up decent stats no matter what color your skin is.

Maybe the best example is Alex Daigle. He actually put up decent stats on a terrible Ottawa team. He had the talent, but he never put in the work to become what he was projected to be and quickly became a skilled yet unmotivated journeyman.
- jmatchett383

Sorry but I when I read things like this, I think you just don't know what it takes to make it in a pro league. 100% of all humans are extremely terrible at judging if another person is giving effort or not.

Literally every time you think a person isn't trying hard, there's a 99% chance you are wrong. Applied to hockey players in the NHL this probably goes to 99.999999% chance of being wrong.

So in response to my questions...nothing?
Skilled players are not lazy? Or players of dark melanin are never lazy? Confused.
Alexi Yashin?
Zherdev as previously mentioned?
Just to clarify, it is ok to call them out because they are white? Or no, because they are Russian? Not sure, pls advise
- halo63

None of those guys are lazy, and they probably all got hit with that rep for reasons that had nothing to do with their play.

Kadri, Byfuglien, E. Kane, Duclair, Subban and JT Brown have all been, at times, degraded in the media for being problems in the dressing room, or having attitude problems, or being lazy etc. That has to be at least 80% of the minority players inthe league, so if you don't see that there's a bit of a problem, double standard etc, I don't know what to say.

Must just be a big coincidence, right?

That has to be at least 80% of the minority players inthe league, so if you don't see that there's a bit of a problem, double standard etc, I don't know what to say.

Must just be a big coincidence, right?
- James_Tanner

If it is the case that those players were a problem, how come we cannot say that they were a problem? Regardless of race are we supposed to turn a blind eye?
Mike Greer, Anson Carter, Jerome Iginla, Malcolm Subban. I can name so many quality players of race. Giving someone a pass on race alone is exacting the racism which you say are trying to avoid

That looks worse on the NHL and the teams that had him than it does on Duclair.
- James_Tanner

Right, because you know what was going on behind the scenes.

Sorry but I when I read things like this, I think you just don't know what it takes to make it in a pro league. 100% of all humans are extremely terrible at judging if another person is giving effort or not.

Literally every time you think a person isn't trying hard, there's a 99% chance you are wrong. Applied to hockey players in the NHL this probably goes to 99.999999% chance of being wrong.
- James_Tanner

So since you obvoiusly do know precisely what it takes to make it in a "pro league" (like that Quebec Goon League, which is pro), please tell me exactly what it does take.

I guess whenever a coach calls out a player for not giving effort, he's wrong 100% of the time despite seeing the players up close hours per day every day. And if the NHL is so racist, why are players like Wayne Simmonds and Jerome Iginla held in such high regard as people throughout the league?

the more teams that a player gets traded from before they get their poop together, the more reasonable it is to expect that the player was part of the problem

that doesn't mean the coaches/managers on those teams are absolved of all blame of mishandling them

in many cases, when those players do break out X number of teams later, it's because of the lessons they learned on the way, lessons they learned the hard way

seeing how quickly Strome and Duclair broke out offensively after leaving, and seeing how Kessel and Hall's offensive stats decreased after coming to Arizona, it's hard to not draw the conclusion that Arizona coaching/management is part of the problem

So since you obvoiusly do know precisely what it takes to make it in a "pro league" (like that Quebec Goon League, which is pro), please tell me exactly what it does take.

I guess whenever a coach calls out a player for not giving effort, he's wrong 100% of the time despite seeing the players up close hours per day every day. And if the NHL is so racist, why are players like Wayne Simmonds and Jerome Iginla held in such high regard as people throughout the league?
- jmatchett383

And Kevin Weekes
Kyle Okposo
Bryce Salvador
Anson Carter
Pokey Reddich
Grant Ruhr
Tony McKechnie
Grahme Townsend among others

None of those guys are lazy, and they probably all got hit with that rep for reasons that had nothing to do with their play.

Kadri, Byfuglien, E. Kane, Duclair, Subban and JT Brown have all been, at times, degraded in the media for being problems in the dressing room, or having attitude problems, or being lazy etc. That has to be at least 80% of the minority players inthe league, so if you don't see that there's a bit of a problem, double standard etc, I don't know what to say.

Must just be a big coincidence, right?
- James_Tanner

I'm not blind, and I'm sure there has been/is some stereotyping of players that come into the league, but there are plenty of white players that have been labeled the same. Byfuglien had a documented history of showing up to camp out of shape. That is laziness, but I digress.

I don't think Duclair's problem was ever being lazy. His problem was that he did not handle his responsibilities and was often out of position. I can speak specifically about the time that he was in Chicago, because at the time, I thought it was a great pick-up. There are a lot of players in the league (of whatever background) that can score points, but if they don't play consistently within the team's system, it makes it very difficult for the team to trust him on the ice. That causes indecision and leads to several dangerous chances against.

None of those guys are lazy, and they probably all got hit with that rep for reasons that had nothing to do with their play.

Kadri, Byfuglien, E. Kane, Duclair, Subban and JT Brown have all been, at times, degraded in the media for being problems in the dressing room, or having attitude problems, or being lazy etc. That has to be at least 80% of the minority players inthe league, so if you don't see that there's a bit of a problem, double standard etc, I don't know what to say.

Must just be a big coincidence, right?
- James_Tanner

Do you have sources for Kadri, Buff, and JT Brown?

I saw AD play his rookie season with my own eyes. He was not lazy.

Sorry but I when I read things like this, I think you just don't know what it takes to make it in a pro league. 100% of all humans are extremely terrible at judging if another person is giving effort or not.

Literally every time you think a person isn't trying hard, there's a 99% chance you are wrong. Applied to hockey players in the NHL this probably goes to 99.999999% chance of being wrong.


- james_tanner

Is there a website with a chart or graph where I can see this statistic? Take a look at the data. Otherwise is just more tanner bull poop.

None of those guys are lazy, and they probably all got hit with that rep for reasons that had nothing to do with their play.

Kadri, Byfuglien, E. Kane, Duclair, Subban and JT Brown have all been, at times, degraded in the media for being problems in the dressing room, or having attitude problems, or being lazy etc. That has to be at least 80% of the minority players inthe league, so if you don't see that there's a bit of a problem, double standard etc, I don't know what to say.

Must just be a big coincidence, right?
- James_Tanner

What about Wayne Simmonds? Was he ever described as lazy or as having an attitude problem? If not, why not?

What about Wayne Simmonds? Was he ever described as lazy or as having an attitude problem? If not, why not?
- MJL

Pretty pathetic that people can't just say "yeah maybe it was and is a problem."

Listing black guys with good reputations is as ridiculous as saying that Obama getting elected ended racism.